From: Smylers Date: 10:59 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Firefox Update "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb to use than 'finish'? Smylers
From: demerphq Date: 11:12 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 03/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > to use than 'finish'? "Click finish to complete the update process and start Firefox." But most programmers are virtually incapable of constructing a clear sentence. I mean heck, most of them don't know the difference between "affect" and "effect", which I've always thought was just sad. Yves
From: Smylers Date: 12:01 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update demerphq writes: > On 03/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > > to use than 'finish'? > > "Click finish to complete the update process and start Firefox." That's better, but I'm still not convinced that 'Finish' is the best label for the button. I've already told the computer to start Firefox; it then interupted that to do something updatey of its own accord, so even the concept of finishing something isn't really in my mind. And that's the only enabled button on the window anyway -- it isn't like I have a choice here over whether it should finish or do something else! Smylers
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi Date: 14:16 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On Jan 3, 2008 7:01 AM, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > demerphq writes: > > > On 03/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > > > > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > > > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > > > to use than 'finish'? > > > > "Click finish to complete the update process and start Firefox." > > That's better, but I'm still not convinced that 'Finish' is the best > label for the button. > > I've already told the computer to start Firefox; it then interupted that > to do something updatey of its own accord, so even the concept of > finishing something isn't really in my mind. And that's the only > enabled button on the window anyway -- it isn't like I have a choice > here over whether it should finish or do something else! > > Smylers "Click [Restart Firefox] to complete the update process"? But agreed, if there's only one choice, why bother showing it?
From: demerphq Date: 14:26 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 03/01/2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@xxx.xx> wrote: > On Jan 3, 2008 7:01 AM, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > demerphq writes: > > > > > On 03/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > > > > > > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > > > > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > > > > to use than 'finish'? > > > > > > "Click finish to complete the update process and start Firefox." > > > > That's better, but I'm still not convinced that 'Finish' is the best > > label for the button. > > > > I've already told the computer to start Firefox; it then interupted that > > to do something updatey of its own accord, so even the concept of > > finishing something isn't really in my mind. And that's the only > > enabled button on the window anyway -- it isn't like I have a choice > > here over whether it should finish or do something else! > > > > Smylers > > "Click [Restart Firefox] to complete the update process"? > > But agreed, if there's only one choice, why bother showing it? So you feel all warm and fuzzy because you were involved in the upgrade. :-) yves
From: Chris Devers Date: 17:26 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, demerphq wrote: > On 03/01/2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@xxx.xx> wrote: > > On Jan 3, 2008 7:01 AM, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > > demerphq writes: > > > > > > > On 03/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > > > > > > > > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > > > > > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > > > > > to use than 'finish'? > > > > > > > > "Click finish to complete the update process and start Firefox." > > > > > > That's better, but I'm still not convinced that 'Finish' is the best > > > label for the button. > > > > > > I've already told the computer to start Firefox; it then interupted that > > > to do something updatey of its own accord, so even the concept of > > > finishing something isn't really in my mind. And that's the only > > > enabled button on the window anyway -- it isn't like I have a choice > > > here over whether it should finish or do something else! > > > > > > Smylers > > > > "Click [Restart Firefox] to complete the update process"? > > > > But agreed, if there's only one choice, why bother showing it? > > So you feel all warm and fuzzy because you were involved in the upgrade. We can't have these things happening without *some* kind of user intervention in the process, can we? People always seem to howl about silent self-update systems, but *ahem* this solves that problem, eh? In any case, surely "Proceed" or "Continue" would be better verbs than "Finish", hence "Click [continue] to begin using the new version of Firefox."
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 19:48 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update Chris Devers wrote: > We can't have these things happening without *some* kind of user > intervention in the process, can we? People always seem to howl about > silent self-update systems, but *ahem* this solves that problem, eh? Firefox has been updated. [OK] [Cancel]
From: Chris Devers
Date: 20:06 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> Chris Devers wrote:
> > We can't have these things happening without *some* kind of user
> > intervention in the process, can we? People always seem to howl about
> > silent self-update systems, but *ahem* this solves that problem, eh?
>
> Firefox has been updated.
> [OK] [Cancel]
The meaning of [OK] is obvious, but [Cancel] isn't.
Does it mean "un-update Firefox"?
Or does it mean "I'd rather not use it at all than use the new version"?
Compounding things, the dialog in question shows up after the real
permission question came up in the first place, and the way that one is
phraed is, as I recall:
A new firefox is available,
install now or later?
[now] [later]
I don't remember an option for "don't update"; you only have a choice as
to whether or not to defer the action, e.g. [skip version] etc.
Whether you opt for the [now] or [later], you're committed to doing the
upgrade, so the pause for "Firefox is updated, keep going?" is silly, no
matter how the question is phrased.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole proces.
From: Peter da Silva Date: 20:14 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 2008-01-03, at 14:06, Chris Devers wrote: > I don't remember an option for "don't update"; you only have a > choice as > to whether or not to defer the action, e.g. [skip version] etc. Um, that's that [later] means. "Don't update now, we'll ask you again later".
From: Chris Devers Date: 20:40 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Peter da Silva wrote: > On 2008-01-03, at 14:06, Chris Devers wrote: > > I don't remember an option for "don't update"; you only have a choice as > > to whether or not to defer the action, e.g. [skip version] etc. > > Um, that's that [later] means. "Don't update now, we'll ask you again later". That's nagware; "skip" and "defer" aren't the same thing.
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi Date: 20:46 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel] On Jan 3, 2008 3:40 PM, Chris Devers <cdevers@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Peter da Silva wrote: > > > On 2008-01-03, at 14:06, Chris Devers wrote: > > > I don't remember an option for "don't update"; you only have a choice as > > > to whether or not to defer the action, e.g. [skip version] etc. > > > > Um, that's that [later] means. "Don't update now, we'll ask you again later". > > That's nagware; "skip" and "defer" aren't the same thing. > > > -- > Chris Devers > >
From: Chris Devers Date: 20:52 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote: > [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel] [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic]
From: H.Merijn Brand
Date: 20:59 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:52:42 -0500 (EST), Chris Devers <cdevers@xxxxx.xxx>
wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
>
> > [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel]
>
> [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic]
Do you want to Cancel the update?
[Cancel] [Cancel]
From: Aristotle Pagaltzis
Date: 21:16 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
* H.Merijn Brand <h.m.brand@xxxxxx.xx> [2008-01-03 22:05]:
> Do you want to Cancel the update?
>
> [Cancel] [Cancel]
Error: update completed successfully.
[OK] [Cancel] [Cancel]
Regards,
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 21:30 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update H.Merijn Brand wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:52:42 -0500 (EST), Chris Devers <cdevers@xxxxx.xxx> > wrote: > >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote: >> >>> [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel] >> [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic] > > Do you want to Cancel the update? > > [Cancel] [Cancel] Are you sure you want to delete Firefox? [Unsure] [Not Unsure]
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi
Date: 21:46 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
On Jan 3, 2008 4:30 PM, Michael G Schwern <schwern@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> H.Merijn Brand wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:52:42 -0500 (EST), Chris Devers <cdevers@xxxxx.xxx>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> >>
> >>> [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel]
> >> [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic]
> >
> > Do you want to Cancel the update?
> >
> > [Cancel] [Cancel]
>
> Are you sure you want to delete Firefox?
> [Unsure] [Not Unsure]
>
You meant
Are you not unsure you want to delete Firefox?
HTH.
From: Jonathan Trites
Date: 21:57 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
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You forgot the buttons...
Are you not unsure you want to delete Firefox?
[Not unsure] [Not not unsure] [Cancel]
On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@xxx.xx> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2008 4:30 PM, Michael G Schwern <schwern@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > H.Merijn Brand wrote:
> > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:52:42 -0500 (EST), Chris Devers <
> cdevers@xxxxx.xxx>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel]
> > >> [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic]
> > >
> > > Do you want to Cancel the update?
> > >
> > > [Cancel] [Cancel]
> >
> > Are you sure you want to delete Firefox?
> > [Unsure] [Not Unsure]
> >
>
> You meant
>
> Are you not unsure you want to delete Firefox?
>
> HTH.
>
> --
> There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'. It is
> 'dead'. -- Jack Cohen
>
>
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You forgot the buttons...<br><br> Are you not unsure you want to delete Firefox?<br>
[Not unsure] [Not not unsure] [Cancel]<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi <<a href="mailto:jhi@xxx.xx">jhi@xxx.xx</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">On Jan 3, 2008 4:30 PM, Michael G Schwern <<a href="mailto:schwern@xxxxx.xxx">schwern@xxxxx.xxx</a>> wrote:<br>> H.Merijn Brand wrote:<br>> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:52:42 -0500 (EST), Chris Devers <
<a href="mailto:cdevers@xxxxx.xxx">cdevers@xxxxx.xxx</a>><br>> > wrote:<br>> ><br>> >> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:<br>> >><br>> >>> [Skip] [Defer] [Ignore] [Cancel]
<br>> >> [Abort] [Retry] [Cancel] [Panic]<br>> ><br>> > Do you want to Cancel the update?<br>> ><br>> > [Cancel] [Cancel]<br>><br>> Are you sure you want to delete Firefox?
<br>> [Unsure] [Not Unsure]<br>><br><br></div>You meant<br><br> Are you not unsure you want to delete Firefox?<br><br>HTH.<br><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>--<br>There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'. It is
<br>'dead'. -- Jack Cohen<br><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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From: Chris Devers
Date: 22:23 on 03 Jan 2008
Subject: Re: Firefox Update
Surely this can be simplified to:
[I'm feeling lucky]
From: Peter da Silva Date: 23:31 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 2008-01-03, at 14:40, Chris Devers wrote: > That's nagware; "skip" and "defer" aren't the same thing. If you don't want it nagging you, turn off automatic nagging^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hupdate.
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi Date: 20:37 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update > > > > Firefox has been updated. > > [OK] [Cancel] > > The meaning of [OK] is obvious, but [Cancel] isn't. > > Does it mean "un-update Firefox"? > > Or does it mean "I'd rather not use it at all than use the new version"? Here's a generous helping of sarcasm for ya! *SLOP*
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 20:40 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update Chris Devers wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Michael G Schwern wrote: > >> Chris Devers wrote: >>> We can't have these things happening without *some* kind of user >>> intervention in the process, can we? People always seem to howl about >>> silent self-update systems, but *ahem* this solves that problem, eh? >> Firefox has been updated. >> [OK] [Cancel] > > The meaning of [OK] is obvious, but [Cancel] isn't. > > Does it mean "un-update Firefox"? > > Or does it mean "I'd rather not use it at all than use the new version"? It's like telling a joke to Data. Now laugh in a stilted and slightly disturbing fashion and the illusion will be complete.
From: Peter da Silva Date: 20:13 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 2008-01-03, at 13:48, Michael G Schwern wrote: > Firefox has been updated. > [OK] [Cancel] Hateful! Firefox has been updated. Click Restart to continue using Firefox. [Restart] [Quit] This would actually be useful. I may just want to quit at that point (like, I was about to quit anyway), why bother starting Firefox over just to quit it?
From: Smylers Date: 01:27 on 04 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update Peter da Silva writes: > On 2008-01-03, at 13:48, Michael G Schwern wrote: > > > Firefox has been updated. > > [OK] [Cancel] Nice! (Though for what it's worth, it wasn't Firefox which was being updated here, but some extensions.) > Firefox has been updated. Click Restart to continue using > Firefox. [Restart] [Quit] > > This would actually be useful. 'Restart' still doesn't make sense -- the thing hasn't even started once yet (since this updater thing appeared when I ran Firefox). > I may just want to quit at that point (like, I was about to quit > anyway), Unlikely, given that my most recent instruction to the computer was to start Firefox and it still hasn't got that far yet. Smylers
From: Earle Martin Date: 13:38 on 04 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update On 04/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > 'Restart' still doesn't make sense -- the thing hasn't even started once > yet (since this updater thing appeared when I ran Firefox). What I want: A little box appears saying "[information icon] Firefox has been updated." Then after a few seconds it fades away and vanishes. And the update question should look like this. Non-modal dialog: A new version of Firefox (3.4.5) is available. <link, doesn't dismiss dialog>What's new?</link> (*) Update now ( ) Don't tell me again about this version ( ) Don't ever tell me about updates [ OK ]
From: numien Date: 13:46 on 04 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update Earle Martin wrote: > On 04/01/2008, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> 'Restart' still doesn't make sense -- the thing hasn't even started once >> yet (since this updater thing appeared when I ran Firefox). > > What I want: A little box appears saying "[information icon] Firefox > has been updated." Then after a few seconds it fades away and > vanishes. > > And the update question should look like this. Non-modal dialog: > > A new version of Firefox (3.4.5) is available. <link, doesn't > dismiss dialog>What's new?</link> > > (*) Update now > ( ) Don't tell me again about this version > ( ) Don't ever tell me about updates > > [ OK ] > Yeah, but if they did stuff like that on a regular basis, they wouldn't get nearly as much advertising on this mailing list. ;)
From: Ricardo SIGNES Date: 23:11 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update * Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> [2008-01-03T07:01:20] > I've already told the computer to start Firefox; it then interupted that > to do something updatey of its own accord, so even the concept of > finishing something isn't really in my mind. And that's the only > enabled button on the window anyway -- it isn't like I have a choice > here over whether it should finish or do something else! Click "I Forgive You"
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 12:39 on 03 Jan 2008 Subject: Re: Firefox Update Smylers wrote: > "Click Finish to continue starting Firefox." > > I'm not entirely sure how I'd've phrased that, but surely, _surely_, > when you want to indicate starting something there must be a better verb > to use than 'finish'? Perhaps the result of years of being told that to turn off the computer you push the "Start" button. And to restart you push "Shut Down".
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