smylers hates software: PPM

• From: Smylers
  Date: 10:25 on 17 Aug 2005
  Subject: PPM
  
  PPM (version 3.1, if that matters) is being particularly hateful today.
  We've got a windows server which has Email::Send 1.45 on it, which is
  broken.  I wish to upgrade it to 1.46, which isn't broken.
  
    C:\>ppm install Email::Send
    Searching for 'Email::Send' returned multiple results. Using 'search'
    instead...
  
    Searching in Active Repositories
      1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
      2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
      3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
      4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
      5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
      6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  
  Hmmm, a list of "multiple" results, all for the same package.  Guess
  what, it's the _latest_ version of that package I wish to install.
  Actually, _either_ of the latest versions would do, given that items 1
  and 6 in the above list are hatefully displayed the same, giving me no
  clue at all as to in what way they might differ.
  
  Let's give installation another go, remembering that PPM is stateful (as
  well as hateful) and that once one command has emitted a numbered list a
  following command can use those numbers to refer particular itmes:
  
    C:\>ppm install 1
    No search results to install -- use 'search' to find a package.
  
  Yes, but I've just used 'search' -- or rather it used it for me!
  Presumably PPM is only stateful when run as a shell, rather than with
  sub-commands directly on the command line.  But it's hateful that the
  error messages don't mention that point, and, even worse, try to goad
  you into doing something that won't work.  Let's try again:
  
    C:\>ppm
    ...
    ppm> search Email::Send
    Searching in Active Repositories
      1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
      2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
      3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
      4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
      5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
      6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
    ppm> install 1
    Package 1:
    Note: Package 'Email-Send' is already installed.
  
  Yes, I know Email-Send is already installed, but package 1 in the above
  list is most definitely version 1.46, which is newer than the version
  I've installed.  Look, it'll even tell me that:
  
    ppm> q Email::Send
    Querying target 1 (ActivePerl 5.8.4.810)
    No matches for 'Email::Send'; see 'help query'.
  
  At least it would if it kept track of which packages supply which
  modules, so that users could refer to modules, things they program with
  and actually want to use, in all PPM commands -- rather than hatefully
  and tantalizingly letting us use modules in some commands and forcing us
  to use packages in others:
  
    ppm> q Email-Send
    Querying target 1 (ActivePerl 5.8.4.810)
      1. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  
  So that's what I want to upgrade.  Let's try the upgrade command:
  
    ppm> upgrade Email::Send
    Error: package 'Email::Send' is not installed.
  
  So install can cope with a module name but even upgrade can't?  Hate!
  
    ppm> upgrade Email-Send
    Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  
  Yes, I know that Email-Send 1.45 is up to date; what I'm wanting you to
  install is Email-Send 1.46 which you listed for me earlier!  Let's go
  back to that list and try to upgrade it from there:
  
    ppm> search Email::Send
    Searching in Active Repositories
      1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
      2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
      3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
      4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
      5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
      6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
    ppm> upgrade 1
    Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  
  Huh?  What?  Now, really, there's no excuse for that.
  
  Oh, from reading the help it transpires that upgrade only _lists_
  potential upgrades; it hatefully doesn't try to install an upgrade
  unless you give it the -install flag (not to be confused with the
  install command, above, which hatefully won't install upgrades either):
  
    ppm> upgrade -install Email-Send
    Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  
  Noooo!!!
  
  Let's try that list again.
  
    ppm> search Email::Send
    Searching in Active Repositories
      1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
      2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
      3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
      4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
      5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
      6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
    ppm> upgrade -install 1
    Error: package '1' is not installed.
  
  So the install command can take numbers from a search list instead of
  package names; the upgrade command can take such numbers when searching
  for a package; but give the upgrade the -install flag and it suddenly
  forgets how to use these numbers?  Yer-what???
  
  Let's try removing the ambiguity in the above list.  PPM comes
  configured to search 2 repositories by default.  The above list looks
  suspiciously like one of those repositories has lots of versions of
  Email-Send and one only has the version I want, so if I disable the
  repository with lots there should be just the one I want left.
  
    ppm> rep
    Repositories:
    [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
    [2] ActiveState Package Repository
  
  Wow, those are sure good names for making absolutely clear the
  distinction between the two them.  Let's disable the first one:
  
    ppm> rep off 1
    Repositories:
    [1] ActiveState Package Repository
    [ ] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  
  and try that search again:
  
    ppm> search Email::Send
    Searching in Active Repositories
      1. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
      2. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
      3. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
      4. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
      5. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  
  Ooops, chose wrong.  Let's disable that repository and enable the other
  one:
  
    ppm> rep off 1
    Repositories:
    [ ] ActiveState Package Repository
    [ ] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  
  Hmmm, it indicates that a repository is disabled by removing its number.
  So now there's no handy way of indicating which of the disabled
  repositories I wish to enable; its name has to be typed in full.  I'm
  _so_ glad somebody redundantly put "Repository" at the end of the name
  of a package repository, in a list of package repositories, just so that
  I could type it in again:
  
    ppm> rep on ActiveState PPM2 Repository
    [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
    [ ] ActiveState Package Repository
  
  Search again:
  
    ppm> search Email::Send
     1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  
  Hurrah!  No ambiguity there, let's try that upgrade:
  
    ppm> upgrade -install Email-Send
    ppm>
  
  That's right: nothing.  Just the PPM prompt back again.
  
  And no, this isn't the 'no news is good news' sense of nothing that you
  get with Unix commands, where a lack of error message indicates success.
  The installed package is still at version 1.45.
  
  I'm completely stumped.  I've got a package manager which can tell me
  about a package that I want, but I can't find a way of actually
  persuading it to install it.  This is ridiculous!  What on earth is the
  point of a package manager that declines to install packages that it's
  told you are available for installation?
  
  So What I actually did to fix Email::Send on this server is use Cpan
  Search's diff feature to view the 2 lines that have changed between 1.45
  and 1.46, then use 'WordPad' to hack those changes directly on to the
  installed module.  As a technique it doesn't scale well, but it has the
  advantage of actually working.
  
  Smylers
  
  

• From: Peter da Silva
  Date: 13:48 on 17 Aug 2005
  Subject: Re: PPM
  
  On Aug 17, 2005, at 4:25 AM, Smylers wrote:
  > PPM (version 3.1, if that matters) is being particularly hateful today.
  
  All package managers are inherently hateful, and the more complex they 
  are the more hateful they are. And I'm terribly afraid that this is one 
  area where layering can actually make things worse.
  
  
  

• From: Michael G Schwern
  Date: 16:42 on 17 Aug 2005
  Subject: Re: PPM
  
  On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 09:25:24AM +0000, Smylers wrote:
  > So What I actually did to fix Email::Send on this server is use Cpan
  > Search's diff feature to view the 2 lines that have changed between 1.45
  > and 1.46, then use 'WordPad' to hack those changes directly on to the
  > installed module.  As a technique it doesn't scale well, but it has the
  > advantage of actually working.
  
  PPM makes RPM look good.
  
  This should help launch you into a PPM free universe.
  http://search.cpan.org/dist/dmake/
  
  
  
  

• From: Jonathan Trites
  Date: 23:14 on 17 Aug 2005
  Subject: Re: PPM
  
  I don't know anything about ppm, and it seems that you have already
  fixed the problem, but could you uninstall 1.45 first? If it was
  uninstalled and didn't exist, then maybe the install command would get
  1.46 and not be confused since the 1.45 package wouldn't exist at that
  point.
  
  And yes, I know that I'm not supposed to be helpful on this list. So,
  to make up for it, I hate how in firefox when a download terminates
  before it is done, firefox just says that it's done and doesn't say
  "download terminated unexpectedly" or some such. Since it says the
  download is done, it also means I just can't click retry and have it
  start over. Brilliant design choice!!! There, the forces are back in
  balance.
  
  On 8/17/05, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
  > PPM (version 3.1, if that matters) is being particularly hateful today.
  > We've got a windows server which has Email::Send 1.45 on it, which is
  > broken.  I wish to upgrade it to 1.46, which isn't broken.
  >=20
  >   C:\>ppm install Email::Send
  >   Searching for 'Email::Send' returned multiple results. Using 'search'
  >   instead...
  >=20
  >   Searching in Active Repositories
  >     1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >     2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
  >     3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
  >     4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
  >     5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >     6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >=20
  > Hmmm, a list of "multiple" results, all for the same package.  Guess
  > what, it's the _latest_ version of that package I wish to install.
  > Actually, _either_ of the latest versions would do, given that items 1
  > and 6 in the above list are hatefully displayed the same, giving me no
  > clue at all as to in what way they might differ.
  >=20
  > Let's give installation another go, remembering that PPM is stateful (as
  > well as hateful) and that once one command has emitted a numbered list a
  > following command can use those numbers to refer particular itmes:
  >=20
  >   C:\>ppm install 1
  >   No search results to install -- use 'search' to find a package.
  >=20
  > Yes, but I've just used 'search' -- or rather it used it for me!
  > Presumably PPM is only stateful when run as a shell, rather than with
  > sub-commands directly on the command line.  But it's hateful that the
  > error messages don't mention that point, and, even worse, try to goad
  > you into doing something that won't work.  Let's try again:
  >=20
  >   C:\>ppm
  >   ...
  >   ppm> search Email::Send
  >   Searching in Active Repositories
  >     1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >     2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
  >     3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
  >     4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
  >     5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >     6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >   ppm> install 1
  >   Package 1:
  >   Note: Package 'Email-Send' is already installed.
  >=20
  > Yes, I know Email-Send is already installed, but package 1 in the above
  > list is most definitely version 1.46, which is newer than the version
  > I've installed.  Look, it'll even tell me that:
  >=20
  >   ppm> q Email::Send
  >   Querying target 1 (ActivePerl 5.8.4.810)
  >   No matches for 'Email::Send'; see 'help query'.
  >=20
  > At least it would if it kept track of which packages supply which
  > modules, so that users could refer to modules, things they program with
  > and actually want to use, in all PPM commands -- rather than hatefully
  > and tantalizingly letting us use modules in some commands and forcing us
  > to use packages in others:
  >=20
  >   ppm> q Email-Send
  >   Querying target 1 (ActivePerl 5.8.4.810)
  >     1. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >=20
  > So that's what I want to upgrade.  Let's try the upgrade command:
  >=20
  >   ppm> upgrade Email::Send
  >   Error: package 'Email::Send' is not installed.
  >=20
  > So install can cope with a module name but even upgrade can't?  Hate!
  >=20
  >   ppm> upgrade Email-Send
  >   Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  >=20
  > Yes, I know that Email-Send 1.45 is up to date; what I'm wanting you to
  > install is Email-Send 1.46 which you listed for me earlier!  Let's go
  > back to that list and try to upgrade it from there:
  >=20
  >   ppm> search Email::Send
  >   Searching in Active Repositories
  >     1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >     2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
  >     3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
  >     4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
  >     5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >     6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >   ppm> upgrade 1
  >   Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  >=20
  > Huh?  What?  Now, really, there's no excuse for that.
  >=20
  > Oh, from reading the help it transpires that upgrade only _lists_
  > potential upgrades; it hatefully doesn't try to install an upgrade
  > unless you give it the -install flag (not to be confused with the
  > install command, above, which hatefully won't install upgrades either):
  >=20
  >   ppm> upgrade -install Email-Send
  >   Email-Send 1.45: up to date.
  >=20
  > Noooo!!!
  >=20
  > Let's try that list again.
  >=20
  >   ppm> search Email::Send
  >   Searching in Active Repositories
  >     1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >     2. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
  >     3. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
  >     4. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
  >     5. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >     6. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >   ppm> upgrade -install 1
  >   Error: package '1' is not installed.
  >=20
  > So the install command can take numbers from a search list instead of
  > package names; the upgrade command can take such numbers when searching
  > for a package; but give the upgrade the -install flag and it suddenly
  > forgets how to use these numbers?  Yer-what???
  >=20
  > Let's try removing the ambiguity in the above list.  PPM comes
  > configured to search 2 repositories by default.  The above list looks
  > suspiciously like one of those repositories has lots of versions of
  > Email-Send and one only has the version I want, so if I disable the
  > repository with lots there should be just the one I want left.
  >=20
  >   ppm> rep
  >   Repositories:
  >   [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  >   [2] ActiveState Package Repository
  >=20
  > Wow, those are sure good names for making absolutely clear the
  > distinction between the two them.  Let's disable the first one:
  >=20
  >   ppm> rep off 1
  >   Repositories:
  >   [1] ActiveState Package Repository
  >   [ ] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  >=20
  > and try that search again:
  >=20
  >   ppm> search Email::Send
  >   Searching in Active Repositories
  >     1. Email-Send    [1.4] Simply Sending Email
  >     2. Email-Send   [1.41] Simply Sending Email
  >     3. Email-Send   [1.43] Simply Sending Email
  >     4. Email-Send   [1.45] Simply Sending Email
  >     5. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >=20
  > Ooops, chose wrong.  Let's disable that repository and enable the other
  > one:
  >=20
  >   ppm> rep off 1
  >   Repositories:
  >   [ ] ActiveState Package Repository
  >   [ ] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  >=20
  > Hmmm, it indicates that a repository is disabled by removing its number.
  > So now there's no handy way of indicating which of the disabled
  > repositories I wish to enable; its name has to be typed in full.  I'm
  > _so_ glad somebody redundantly put "Repository" at the end of the name
  > of a package repository, in a list of package repositories, just so that
  > I could type it in again:
  >=20
  >   ppm> rep on ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  >   [1] ActiveState PPM2 Repository
  >   [ ] ActiveState Package Repository
  >=20
  > Search again:
  >=20
  >   ppm> search Email::Send
  >    1. Email-Send   [1.46] Simply Sending Email
  >=20
  > Hurrah!  No ambiguity there, let's try that upgrade:
  >=20
  >   ppm> upgrade -install Email-Send
  >   ppm>
  >=20
  > That's right: nothing.  Just the PPM prompt back again.
  >=20
  > And no, this isn't the 'no news is good news' sense of nothing that you
  > get with Unix commands, where a lack of error message indicates success.
  > The installed package is still at version 1.45.
  >=20
  > I'm completely stumped.  I've got a package manager which can tell me
  > about a package that I want, but I can't find a way of actually
  > persuading it to install it.  This is ridiculous!  What on earth is the
  > point of a package manager that declines to install packages that it's
  > told you are available for installation?
  >=20
  > So What I actually did to fix Email::Send on this server is use Cpan
  > Search's diff feature to view the 2 lines that have changed between 1.45
  > and 1.46, then use 'WordPad' to hack those changes directly on to the
  > installed module.  As a technique it doesn't scale well, but it has the
  > advantage of actually working.
  >=20
  > Smylers
  > --
  > May God bless us with enough foolishness to believe that we can make a
  > difference in this world, so that we can do what others claim cannot be d=
  one.
  >=20
  >=20
  
  
  --=20
  And then there was the lawyer that stepped in cow manure and thought
  he was melting...
  
  

Generated at 10:27 on 16 Apr 2008 by mariachi