From: Smylers Date: 17:13 on 16 Apr 2005 Subject: Travel Agent Booking Software This is a vicarious hate: I haven't touched the softare myself, but just sat behind a travel agent employee trying to use it. I didn't take it as a good sign when her first action was to press Ctrl+Alt+Del to bring up the Windows 95 'Close Program' list and use it to quit the program she'd been using with the previous customer. I also wasn't impressed that when listing possible holidays all the available actions are listed with 2-digit codes, but require pressing Enter after them anyway -- so simply paging through the list involves typing 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter ... But my main complaint is with the lack of control the user has when searching. I was initially told that our requirements were so flexible they gave lots of possibilities -- mainly cos they didn't include a destination, nor a price. That ought to make it easy to come up with something acceptable, but apparently not. Many of the criteria we did have the system had no way of using for narrowing down the search results. Now for some things, such as "not overrun with rampaging mobs of British lager louts", that's understandable. But for easily categorized multiple-choice criteria such as the number of stars on the hotel and how many meals we want included not being able to search by them makes no sense at all -- they are clearly fields in the database, since they appear as separate columns in the output, but the only way to use them is to page through the results (5 0 Enter, remember) scanning that column by eye and ignoring the ones we don't want! The travel agent person mentions again that because so many holidays meet our requirements it's quite hard to choose. So I try to help out by adding in some criteria which aren't essential, but nice to have: in particular, I say to restrict the airports to London (rather than London or Leeds) and the date to ending on the day of the London.pm June social meeting (rather than being any 7 days within a 12-day window) -- since we're in a position to be picky, let's take advantage of a trip I'm making to London anyway and avoid me having to make a separate trip (or my friend having to make a trip from London to Leeds). But that only seems to make things worse, because for the destinations the travel agent person has chosen to look at there aren't any flights meeting those additional criteria -- not that that's particularly easy to determine, because the software presumes a tolerance on the flight dates so we have flights on dates we don't want mixed in with those on the right dates, because the output isn't even in chronological order! So it lists holidays that have the wrong flights, the wrong accommodation, or both -- and we have to wade through it manually just to determine that it's done this. I say "destinations the travel agent person has chosen to look at" because that's what the software insists on: performing searches for holidays at a named place. So she has to guess places that might be appropriate for us and try out our criteria -- which are now _too_ constraining for any particular destination! Apparently it doesn't matter how restrictive our constraints are -- if we don't know where we want to go, then the software won't let us at the information it's hiding in the database. Hmmm, maybe if there's a holiday website out there with an SQL injection bug in it's code then I could exploit it to inject some SQL that searches for a holiday that meets our criteria -- that'd certainly be more user-friendly than the system in the local travel agent ... Smylers
From: David H. Adler Date: 23:14 on 16 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 04:13:54PM +0000, Smylers wrote: > > I also wasn't impressed that when listing possible holidays all the > available actions are listed with 2-digit codes, but require pressing > Enter after them anyway -- so simply paging through the list involves > typing 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter ... I'm really curious as to what system they're using. Did you happen to ask? > I say "destinations the travel agent person has chosen to look at" > because that's what the software insists on: performing searches for > holidays at a named place. So she has to guess places that might be > appropriate for us and try out our criteria -- which are now _too_ > constraining for any particular destination! Apparently it doesn't > matter how restrictive our constraints are -- if we don't know where we > want to go, then the software won't let us at the information it's > hiding in the database. I've never seen software used by agents that work without a destination, despite having spent my entire life in and around the industry. On the other hand, I've understood how they design this stuff less and less as I learn more and more about computers. :-/ I've used travel computers since there were such things, and the basic setup hasn't changed much - and we're talking close to 35 years, here. Of course, a *good* travel agent should be able to figure out where you should be going. Then again, if I assume correctly that you're in the UK, the travel agents there, not to put too fine a point on it, suck. My mom's got clients that have used us for years because they couldn't find a decent agent on that side of the atlantic. dha
From: Smylers Date: 09:22 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software David H. Adler writes: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 04:13:54PM +0000, Smylers wrote: > > > I also wasn't impressed that when listing possible holidays all the > > available actions are listed with 2-digit codes, but require > > pressing Enter after them anyway -- so simply paging through the > > list involves typing 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter 5 0 Enter ... > > I'm really curious as to what system they're using. Did you happen to > ask? No, sorry; at no point did either of us make any reference to the software at all -- I just sat there quietly watching the travel agent person trying to use it. > > Apparently it doesn't matter how restrictive our constraints are -- > > if we don't know where we want to go, then the software won't let us > > at the information it's hiding in the database. > > I've never seen software used by agents that work without a > destination, despite having spent my entire life in and around the > industry. Wow -- while many people do know where they want to go, there must be a fair few who don't, and it isn't as though searching the database based on other fields should be hard ... > Of course, a *good* travel agent should be able to figure out where > you should be going. Well, I'd've thought so -- my reason for turning up to a real travel agent with human beings was cos I hoped they'd be able to deal with things like our "no mobs of lagered-up skinheads draped with Union flags, and preferably not too many screaming toddlers either" criteria; if we _knew_ where we wanted to go then we'd just've used a website. The thing that got me was that I was made to feel I was being awkward for having such inconvenient preferences; at no point were they in the slightest bit apologetic for the fact that their system was hopeless at being helpful in my circumstances. > Then again, if I assume correctly that you're in the UK, the travel > agents there, not to put too fine a point on it, suck. I wouldn't like to generalize from a sample size of one, and anyway this list is specifically for hating software -- so to get it back on topic I'll just add that the travel agent was at least well-trained in how to use the system. In particular she was completely unfazed by the fact that after she'd decided Lanzarote might be a suitable destination the interface required her to indicate this by typing "ACE" into a textbox that could fit exactly 3 characters into it. Yup, no list to pick from; no autocompletion; no textual searching by real-world names; no map to point at: the interface requires the person using it to have memorized the 3-letter IATA code for all the destinations' airports. And a hateful side effect of this specification by airport rather than location is that there's no easy way to request departures from 'any London airport' -- you have to list "LGW", "LHR", etc separately. Except that there are only 3 of these fields for providing acceptable departure points, and London has more than 3 airports, so you have to perform separate searches to check all of them. And when you go back to change the departure point all the other fields get reset too ... Hate! Smylers
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi Date: 09:36 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software > for having such inconvenient preferences; at no point were they in the > slightest bit apologetic for the fact that their system was hopeless at > being helpful in my circumstances. I know this list is about hating software -- but oh, whine whine whine, WHY should *they* be *apologetic* to *you* about software they were not responsible for? > Yup, no list to pick from; no autocompletion; no textual searching by > real-world names; no map to point at: the interface requires the person > using it to have memorized the 3-letter IATA code for all the > destinations' airports. Autocompletion, yes, maybe, that could be useful, but I have to say that the couple of times I've had a clear view to the software the travel agents are doing I must say that I have been *impressed* by the speed they type away and find and check stuff. I have no idea what software they are using, sorry, but to me it always looks very much like mainframe operator work, and when they are good at it, they are very good at it. We've all memorized silly things which we use daily without thinking because we need them in our work. They need IATA codes. I still remember the IP addresses of machines long gone, for example. Why should they be forced to use whiz-bang GUI interfaces? I can only imagine the horror of a drop down menu of all the world's airports... > And a hateful side effect of this specification by airport rather than > location is that there's no easy way to request departures from 'any > London airport' -- you have to list "LGW", "LHR", etc separately. > Except that there are only 3 of these fields for providing acceptable > departure points, and London has more than 3 airports, so you have to > perform separate searches to check all of them. And when you go back to > change the departure point all the other fields get reset too ... Without any idea of what software they were using and without any idea of what kind of software is out there, I hazard a guess that *maybe* they didn't quite know how to use the software the best way? Again, I have in general been very impressed, even for my sometimes "unconventional" requests. > Hate! > > Smylers
From: Smylers Date: 09:53 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software Jarkko Hietaniemi writes: > > for having such inconvenient preferences; at no point were they in > > the slightest bit apologetic for the fact that their system was > > hopeless at being helpful in my circumstances. > > I know this list is about hating software -- but oh, whine whine > whine, WHY should *they* be *apologetic* to *you* about software they > were not responsible for? Oh, they shouldn't -- the software is immaterial; they should be apologetic for not being able to provide a useful _service_ to me (rather than complaining that my criteria don't meet how their system works). The fact that the reason they couldn't provide this service is because of their lousy software is merely an internal matter for them, and not something they should mention to me. Smylers
From: peter (Peter da Silva) Date: 11:30 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software > I can only imagine the horror of a drop down menu of all the world's > airports... I imagine an interface where you type in a city name and it asks you "London, England or London, Ontario". Sounds like they're SO ready for Google Travel.
From: Jonathan Stowe Date: 13:37 on 18 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 10:30, Peter da Silva wrote: > > I can only imagine the horror of a drop down menu of all the world's > > airports... > > I imagine an interface where you type in a city name and it asks you "London, > England or London, Ontario". > > Sounds like they're SO ready for Google Travel. Or the software that does the nationrail timetable enquiries for that matter. /J\
From: Philip Newton Date: 12:37 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On 4/17/05, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > And a hateful side effect of this specification by airport rather than > location is that there's no easy way to request departures from 'any > London airport' -- you have to list "LGW", "LHR", etc separately. > Except that there are only 3 of these fields for providing acceptable > departure points, and London has more than 3 airports, so you have to > perform separate searches to check all of them. Apparently the software hadn't heard of the code "LON", which means, as far as I know, "any London airport". I believe it's an official IATA code. Similarly for other useful codes such as "NYC" (which presumably expands into something like qw/JFK LGA EWR/ or the like). Hateful software that doesn't provide at least this level of convenience. --=20 Philip Newton <philip.newton@xxxxx.xxx>
From: David H. Adler Date: 23:12 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:37:14PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: > On 4/17/05, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > And a hateful side effect of this specification by airport rather than > > location is that there's no easy way to request departures from 'any > > London airport' -- you have to list "LGW", "LHR", etc separately. > > Except that there are only 3 of these fields for providing acceptable > > departure points, and London has more than 3 airports, so you have to > > perform separate searches to check all of them. > > Apparently the software hadn't heard of the code "LON", which means, > as far as I know, "any London airport". I believe it's an official > IATA code. Similarly for other useful codes such as "NYC" (which > presumably expands into something like qw/JFK LGA EWR/ or the like). If it doesn't handle those extrordinarily common cases, hate is justified. This makes me wonder even more what software they're using. It sounds like it's a web based thing, which, at least here in the states, is quite uncommon, afaik. Sabre doesnt' have a web interface, but it certainly lets you use LON and NYC and has a facility for looking up the other airport codes. Then again, it's probably been around longer than the people who actually wrote that web thing. :-) dha
From: Arthur Bergman Date: 23:20 on 17 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On 17 Apr 2005, at 23:12, David H. Adler wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:37:14PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: >> On 4/17/05, Smylers <Smylers@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >>> And a hateful side effect of this specification by airport rather >>> than >>> location is that there's no easy way to request departures from 'any >>> London airport' -- you have to list "LGW", "LHR", etc separately. >>> Except that there are only 3 of these fields for providing acceptable >>> departure points, and London has more than 3 airports, so you have to >>> perform separate searches to check all of them. >> >> Apparently the software hadn't heard of the code "LON", which means, >> as far as I know, "any London airport". I believe it's an official >> IATA code. Similarly for other useful codes such as "NYC" (which >> presumably expands into something like qw/JFK LGA EWR/ or the like). > > If it doesn't handle those extrordinarily common cases, hate is > justified. This makes me wonder even more what software they're using. > It sounds like it's a web based thing, which, at least here in the > states, is quite uncommon, afaik. Sabre doesnt' have a web interface, > but it certainly lets you use LON and NYC and has a facility for > looking > up the other airport codes. Some websites don't support LON and NYC, I hate them and I refuse to use them. (Especially holiday sites have this problem). FUCKING SHIT PIECE OF SOFTWARE I LIVE IN EC1 SO I DON'T CARE IF I FLY FROM LGW LHR LCY LTN or STN. Cheers Arthur ----- CTO @ Fotango Ltd +447834716919 http://www.fotango.com/
From: Simon Wistow Date: 09:43 on 18 Apr 2005 Subject: Re: Travel Agent Booking Software On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 11:20:00PM +0100, Arthur Bergman said: > Some websites don't support LON and NYC, I hate them and I refuse to > use them. (Especially holiday sites have this problem). I particularly fucking hate travel sites which don't allow me to search on the basis of "I don't care how I get there just show me the absolute cheapest way" It's no good advertising that I can fly to Ulan Bator for 20 pence and winning smile if typing every permutation I can think of into your shitty website claims that at minimum it's going to cost me 100 head of Yak and 3 shiny beads. And you, yes Trainline.com I'm looking at you, if you tell me that a first class rail ticket would be cheaper but that first class is only available outbound and there's no return first class then, you know what? I'll cope. I'll travel up to Yorkshire in first class and then squat, hippy like, in the corridor on the way back. I don't mind. It's better than being crammed in with the other sloped browed mouth-breathers in both directions. But NOOOOOOOOO. You can't fucking handle that so I'm forced to sit facing backwards whilst the family of congenitally foul smelling malcontents squawk loudly about how their Charmaine has just got promoted at the supermarket and their grubby turkey-twizzler guzzling spawn alternate between hurtling up and down the aisle and playing crap, tinny 'music' through the bass-less speakers of their chavtastic mobile phones. *sigh*
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